《长城》制作人：好莱坞和中国如何互相学习
随着影片《长城》上周五在中国上映，好莱坞和中国之间的持续示好达到一个新的里程碑。这部由张艺谋导演的备受关注的影片，由传奇影业(Legendary Entertainment)、环球影业(Universal Pictures)、乐视影业和中国电影集团联合出品。这部史诗巨片预算超1.5亿美元，是迄今为止规模最大的中美合拍片，或许也是完全在中国取景的最贵的影片，其中有马特·达蒙(Matt Damon)和刘德华在标志性的长城上大战怪兽的场景。
Along with those attributes come high expectations. Many are looking to see whether the film can help Hollywood further penetrate the fast-growing Chinese film market while fulfilling China’s longstanding ambition to make a global cinematic hit. If it succeeds, industry analysts say this type of big-budget, cross-cultural movie could be a model for future co-productions between China and the United States, the world’s top two film markets.
随之而来的是很高的期望。有许多人想知道这部影片是否能帮助好莱坞进一步渗透快速发展的中国电影市场，同时实现中国长久以来制作全球风靡影片的抱负。业内分析人士表示，如果它获得成功，这种高预算、跨文化的影片可能会成为中国和美国这两个世界上最大的电影市场未来合作拍片的一种模式。
That will not become clear until after Feb. 17, when the film is released in the United States. In an interview, Peter Loehr, chief executive of Legendary East, the China subsidiary of Legendary Entertainment, and one of the movie’s producers, discussed what Hollywood and China could learn from each other and why he rejected accusations of the film’s “whitewashing” in the casting of Mr. Damon.
这些问题要得到答案，还得等到影片于2月17日在美国上映之后。在下面的采访中，这部影片的制片人之一、传奇影业中国子公司传奇东方(Legendary East)的首席执行官罗异(Peter Loehr)探讨了好莱坞和中国可以从彼此身上学些什么，以及他为什么反对外界指责这部影片选达蒙主演是在“洗白”。
How did you get involved in making this film?
你是如何参与到这部电影的制作中来的?
I got involved about four years ago when I joined Legendary. The movie was about to shoot, and we were looking at the budget and the story. The story seemed pretty cliché and not exactly what we wanted to do, and we weren’t able to hit a budget number that we wanted to hit. So we hit a pause button, and we started to rework the script. Then we showed it to Zhang Yimou. He was the first and the only person we showed it to.
我是在4年前加入传奇时参与进来的。当时这部电影即将开拍，我们正仔细考量预算和故事。故事似乎很老套，和我们想要拍的不太一样，预算也无法达到我们想要达到的数字。因此我们按下了暂停键，开始修改剧本。然后我们把剧本拿给张艺谋看。他当时是第一个也是唯一一个看到我们的剧本的人。
At one point did it become clear that “The Great Wall” was going to be a kind of test for future big-budget Hollywood-China co-productions?
在某个时刻，事情是不是变得很清楚，《长城》将成为好莱坞与中国以后合拍大预算影片的某种试金石?
We didn’t set out to do that. It happened along the way. We thought, there’s been a perfect storm of events that allow us to actually make this movie. The Chinese market is now big enough that we can return a big part of the box office on this movie and we can bring in major Chinese partners at significant investments. Before, Chinese investors would say, “Oh, we’ll put in $5 million.” This time our partners are in for 30 percent of this movie. So we thought, “Maybe we can make a real Chinese story and maybe the world is ready for this in a way they weren’t before. Plus Zhang Yimou is amazing, and great actors and talented people want to work with him. Let’s just go for it.”
我们并非从一开始就作此打算。它是一路摸索的产物。我们认为，由一系列因素构成的完美风暴，让我们具有了拍这部电影的现实条件。中国市场现在足够大，因此这部电影能为我们带来很高的票房回报，而且我们可以在进行重大投资时引进大手笔的中方合作伙伴。以前，中国投资者会说，“哦，我们会投500万美元”。而这一次，我们的合作伙伴分担了这部电影30%的投资。于是我们觉得，“或许我们可以拍一个真正的中国故事，或许这个世界与以前不同，已经为此做好了准备。再加上张艺谋非常了不起，伟大的演员和有天分的人想要跟他合作。”那我们就放手去做吧。
After the first trailer came out, there was a lot of backlash from people including Constance Wu of “Fresh Off the Boat,” who criticized the movie as “whitewashing” for casting a white actor — Mr. Damon — as the main hero.
第一支预告片出来后，遭到了很多人的强烈反对，包括出演过《初来乍到》(Fresh Off the Boat)的吴恬敏(Constance Wu)。她指责这部电影让一个白人演员，即达蒙演主角是在“洗白”。
The casting of the movie was entirely organic. This is the way the screenplay was written. It’s not like that role was written as a Chinese person. It’s a plot point that this guy has to show up and do these things. He drives the plot.
电影的选角和剧本完全统一。剧本就是这么写的。并非剧本里写的这个角色是中国人。此人不得不站出来做这些事情，这是情节点之一。他推动着故事情节的发展。
It’s interesting that so far, we haven’t really seen any of the same discussions of race in this movie in the Chinese media. It seems to be a very specifically American issue.
有意思的是，迄今为止我们还没真正看到中国媒体对影片中的种族问题进行任何讨论。这似乎是一个非常具有美国特色的问题。
With this movie, Zhang Yimou and I set out to defy every stereotype that you can think of. All the roles you constantly see Chinese actors in are not in this movie. There is no mafia guy, there is no triad guy, there is no prostitute. There is none of that. And there’s no stupid, phony, fake love story happening at the edge of the movie as the world is about to end.
在这部电影中，张艺谋和我有意避开你能想到的一切成见。影片中没有你看到的华人演员始终在演的那些角色。没有黑帮分子、没有三合会成员、没有妓女。这些都没有。在世界末日即将到来时，影片的边缘也没有出现任何愚蠢、虚伪、造作的爱情故事。
I think when people see the movie they’ll think, “Wow, this is a big step in the right direction, and this is a true collaboration between actors in both countries and they at least have equal footing.”
我想，人们在观影时会想，“哇，这是朝正确的方向迈出的一大步，这是两国演员之间真正的合作，他们至少在地位上是平等的。”
What about the movie do you think will appeal to American moviegoers? 你认为影片的哪些方面会吸引美国观众?
It’s a classic adventure story with a great group of heroes. Certainly there’s never been a movie shot on the Great Wall before, especially one in which you’re fending off monsters. Plus it’s a huge action canvas that works to Zhang Yimou’s strengths. Zhang Yimou was in Los Angeles for postproduction, and he played with the 3-D effects for eight months. So there are things you really haven’t seen before, like smoke coming out of the screen. He took things that he would use in a classic Zhang Yimou art film and melded it into a really commercial format in a really interesting way.
这是一个典型的冒险故事，有一群很棒的英雄。当然以前从来没有过以长城为主题的电影，尤其是抵御怪物的那种。此外，这是一幅巨型动作油画，是张艺谋的长项。为了后期制作，张艺谋亲自前往洛杉矶，并在3D效果上下了八个月的功夫。因此，影片有一些你以前真的没见过的东西，比如从屏幕上冒出来的烟雾。他带来了自己会在典型的张氏文艺片里使用的东西，并用一种真的很有意思的方式让它融入非常商业化的影片。
Based on this experience, what do you think American studios need to learn from Chinese studios and vice versa?
基于这些体验，你认为美中两国的电影制片公司分别需要从对方身上学习什么?
In general the U.S. system of everybody being super independent and each department head having their own little fiefdom and only presenting finished work versus the Chinese system where everyone wants to ask the director every single little detail — I think there’s probably a middle ground to be found somewhere there.
总的来说，美国的制度是所有人都超级独立，各部门的领导都有自己负责的小领域，只负责交出完成以后的作品，而中国的制度是，每一个小细节所有人都想问导演，我觉得可能可以在两者之间找到一个中间地带。
What about on the more conceptual level?
在和观念更相关的层面呢?
I think we need to probably start thinking less about China and how to make a good movie that has Chinese elements. When I worked at C.A.A. [Creative Artists Agency], I saw so many scripts, and everyone had a China idea and said, let’s do a remake of this and a remake of that. At the time, “The Great Wall” was the first project I saw that I thought, “Wow, this makes total sense. That’s a good story. I understand that guy, I actually like that guy, and I understand why the people he meets up with are initially very unwelcoming to him and gradually warm to him as he changes and learns more about himself.”
我觉得我们可能需要开始减少对中国，以及如何制作一部有中国元素的好电影的考虑。在创新艺人经纪公司(Creative Artists Agency，简称CAA)工作的时候，我看到过太多的剧本，人人都有一个和中国有关的想法，说咱们翻拍这个，翻拍那个吧。当时，看到《长城》后我觉得，“哇，这非常有意义。这是个好故事。我理解这个角色，实际上我喜欢这个角色。我理解为什么见到他的人最初非常不欢迎他，但在他改变自己，对自己有了更多的了解后逐渐对他热情起来。”它是我看到后生出这种想法的第一个项目。
How does the movie stand out from past Hollywood-China co-productions?
这部影片和过去的好莱坞与中国的合拍片有何不同?
We feel like this is one of the first true co-productions. It wasn’t coming to China just for finance or for access to the market. It was a story that organically took place here that organically had mixed actors, and it’s something that U.S. studios and Chinese investors sparked to in the same way and invested in accordingly. It’s basically what a co-production is supposed to be. The Chinese side is supposed to be 30 percent, but on a film of this scale, the Chinese side being 30 percent is unheard-of. So it must mean something. They must have really liked it. They must not think it’s whitewashing or pandering or anything like that. So I guess, for me, being able to attract a filmmaker like Zhang Yimou and being able to attract a significant Chinese investment says something about the D.N.A. of this movie.
我们感觉这是第一批真正的合拍片之一。它不仅仅是为了资金或是为了进入这个市场而来到中国。故事本来就发生在这里，本来就有不同国家的演员。它是美国电影制作公司和中国投资者同样喜欢，并相应地进行投资的一个东西。从根本上来说合拍片就应该是这样。中方应该占30%，但在这种规模的电影中，中方占30%的情况闻所未闻。因此，这肯定有一定的含义。他们肯定是真的喜欢它。他们肯定不认为这是洗白或迎合或任何类似的想法。所以我猜，在我看来，能够吸引到像张艺谋这样的电影制作人，能够吸引到巨额的中方投资，这就说明了这部电影的DNA。
